anti-american art piece erected in Baldwin Park

[Rob Vox]

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=95234

I am suprised to see a liberal source airing on the side of America for once. Wish more liberal sources leaned in this direction as opposed to aligning themselves with the anti-American radicals.

For those of you who don't know the controversy, an artist has decided to use tax payer money to promote an art piece in a public square with anti-American messages against the will of the tax payers.

Legal concerned American citizens including caucasians, hispanics, asian, etc came out to protest and was encounter by a army of anti-protesters consisting of angry and probably illegal hispanics, muslim radical who all hate America. Check out the footage here and you will see the true pathetic faces of these anti-American radicals for who they are, violent, intolerant pathetic human beings where if they had their way, california would have been a third-world extension of Mexico.

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1767

Most of these socialists insight extreme violent rhetoric, some wore terrorist-like masks. They even assualted a senior citizen who came to protest against the art-piece by throwing a water bottel into the crowd from accross the street.

For all of you America haters out there, take a good look at your heroes for who they truly are, a pack of intolerant socialist cowards.

The amount of anti-American rhetoric produced by many members in this forum reaches levels of patheticsm almost close to the level of patheticism seen in the footage.

So take a good look at the footage here and you can see your own reflection, all of you America haters.

[KevMinh]

[Rob Vox]

Kevminh,

I certainly welcome your comments and thank you for your interest on my postings, but I sense that your true goal is to personally attack my credibility thus causing you to lack focus in the real issue.

"It was better before they came" to you is too ambiguous, especially when it says next to it, “this land was Mexican once, was Indian always, and is, and will be again”, give me a break. of course this refers to an anti-American position.

[KevMinh]

[Rob Vox]

Kev,

Let me sum it up one more time, this Baldwin Park example reflects the bitter hatred that many feel for this country. You can focus on the interpretation of the quote on the piece and other irrelevant issues, but the main issue here is that the people who showed up to anti-protest sent their bitter message of hatred for America.

Don't focus on the white artist and what she meant to say because what matters is how the people interpreted it, on one side they saw it as a message to Americans that the Mexicans and Indians were here first and anglo Americans should give the land back to them, didn't you see the "F--- the Alamo protest sign in the footage?" And this message was supportted by the anti-protestors. So what is so wrong with patriotic people who are upset that their tax dollars going to a symbol of hate for a country that they love. If you can show me a protest sign that read "F--- Mexicans" from the other side, then that would be a different story, but we don't see that low ball rhetoric coming from the patriotic side.

You see, the liberal or anti-American side is just so full of hate. this is the whole point of the posting, to display the bitter hatred that the anti-American people have. You cannot deny that the level of hatred of these people and of many of those on the left is very extreme.

Many of those on the left have even made an analogous connection between the evil Empire in the Star Wars movie to the Bush Admin, but lets not forget that hate leads to fear, and fear leads to anger and anger leads to the dark side, .....(in the words of Yoda). And were is all that hatred coming from? Yes the liberals, the Howard Dean's and Micheal Moore branch of the democratic party.

Lets face it, the liberal party has fallen to the dark side with their bitter hatred and rhetoric.

So imagine if Bush opened up his speech and said, "I hate democrats and everything they stand for,.....democrats one evil,....they all look the same,....they are a white christain party,....they've never worked an honest day in the their life,...", imagine if Bush said that,..or if any republican official said that. But the chairman of the democratic party Howard Dean said this about the republicans. And you can find rhetoric like this in Senator Kennedy's speeches, Hilary Clinton's speeches. Obviously the balance of hatred has tipped far left.

On another note,

If you refer to the UN Crimes thread you will see that I have provided links and evidence to back up everyone of my claims, so you have no basis to attack my credibilty.

[OCAngel]

Dear Rob & Kev,

I am a poster from SaveOurState. I stumbled upon this discussion you are having and was compelled to add a comment to support Rob's argument. Please forgive my intrusion.

When I look at the situation surrounding the Baldwin Park monument I can't help but think of LA County having to remove a small cross from their logo. Their having to do so was the result of a threat of lawsuit by ACLU. The ACLU claimed the cross was offensive to certain religious groups. The action of removing the cross from every piece of letterhead, business card, police cars, public buildings, and anywhere else the logo is displayed will end up costing the county millions of dollars.

The cross was a symbol of the history of Los Angeles, a reminder of our roots, not an endorsement of Christianity. But the ACLU claimed it was not "neutral" and having it displayed somehow excluded or insulted others. Thus the cross is being removed.

When I hear the pro-monument arguments, I can't help but compare it to the LA County cross. Some claim the comments referring to 'the land once belonging to Mexico and will be again' merely refers back to history of the area (so did the cross). Many claim the comments of the monument are not a call to "reclaim" California for Mexico (the cross did not call for a Christian crusade). The monument was designed by an artist and by removing it would discredit the work (the cross logo was also designed by an artist). Many also argue (and you do too, Kev) that since the monument has stood for 12 years, it should remain (the cross symbolizing LA County has stood since the beginning of the creation of the area).

The ACLU also suggested if the cross were to remain there may just be civil unrest (I wonder if civil unrest would include protests and rallies in the streets calling for 70 police in riot gear to be called out? Which is what happened in Baldwin Park.)

The ACLU claimed the cross was offensive to isolated groups and excluded other religions. The monument is offensive to many more groups than the cross, and it excludes all other cultures other than Mexicans and Native Americans (by the way, based on the postings from Native Americans on SOS forums they are offended by the comments, too).

The bottom-line is the comments on the monument are offensive to a large group of citizens, the words are inciting civil unrest, akin to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, the artist has been known to align herself with reconquista groups, and those groups DO call for the reclaiming of California for Mexico. No matter how the artist twists the words around to make it appear she was promoting diversity, it is the interpretation of the reader that is at the forefront of this issue, and the artist knew her words would be interpreted as a call for a Mexican uprising against America.

Rob, your argument is right. Kev, you are completely wrong in your assesment of SOS as being a racist group. Since the board at Save Our State is open to all to post every now and again we get some outsider posting something which goes against the belief of the group. There is no one within the core of SOS who does not believe in LEGAL immigration. SOS believes there are laws in place for those who wish to share in the American Dream, and those laws should be enforced.

Kev, the pictures you are referring to as racist are merely avatars. There is no picture of people being used as shooting targets. That avatar of the man holding up a shooting target was passed around as a funny image on joke sites for months. The caption was something like the country where the photo was taken was short on funds for cement to place their target in, implying someone must hold it up during practice (not sure of the exact caption wording). The avatar of the gun being shot I believe came off a movie poster, and in no way infers anyone is going to shoot anyone else. You claim these incidental things are "proof" of racism, but you fail to point out that at the Baldwin Park protest it was the Pro-monument ralliers who were chanting "Osa Bin Laden, the Gringo Killer" and "F--- America" and burning the American flag? I see you also did not mention the violence coming from that side when a water bottle was thrown and injured a woman sending her to spend the night in the hospital.

Kev, if you wish to see TRUE racism I suggest you visit anyone of the Brown Pride website, or merely read the mission statement of Mecha, where it states "everything for the race, for those outside the race, nothing". Does that promote diversity in America?

SOS is NOT a racist group. It is a group opposing the rampant and out-of-control mass illegal immigration. ILLEGAL immigration.

Thank you for allowing me to add to your discussion. Once again please forgive me for my rudeness.

PS: Mexico had control over our western states a mere 34 years. The area was bought for a fair value of the time by the US in order to end the war. It was not stolen.

[KevMinh]

Again, today, on June 25th, the SOS group is coming back to Baldwin Park for another session of ego beating and public humiliation. They desperately want this monument to become the flashpoint for a White Patriot reawakening and the eradication of all “illegal immigrants” in this country. They’ve threatened that if the city of Baldwin Park does not tear down the monument by July 1st, then the members of SOS will “will take additional steps to ensure that the passages are removed.” Hmm, sounds like a terrorist action to me. FBI or ATF, would any of you like to shine your lights on this group?

Members and supporters of SOS have been so closed-minded about the reasons for those words being on the monument and the monument’s cultural relevance to the Baldwin Park community that they will only believe what they want to believe, which is to say they believe these words are anti-White, anti-American and “seditious”.

Nevermind the fact that their objections are so petty and self-inflicted, that the only brutally honest reason these people are up in arms over a piece of granite is because they can’t stand people who are unlike them in appearance, language and culture. It’s straight up myopic fanaticism couched in the overused platitudes of patriotism.

What’s even more ridiculous is that those in the SOS camp are mainly from Ventura, California, which according to the city council members of Baldwin Park, is geographically far removed from Baldwin Park. For my own edification and as an added bonus, I checked the actual location and distance between these two cities on Google Maps. There are 85.4 miles separating these two cities, a one-hour and twenty-six-minute drive! Plus, the Baldwin Park Monument was erected in 1993!! Now, all of a sudden, these bigots want to mix it up with the good residents of Baldwin Park over a public art piece that has been standing there for 12 years without comment? This is not only simply audacious on their part, but also betrays their true intent, which is to antagonize and provoke people whom SOS believes are a bunch of “illegal aliens” who have no right to live in the United States, much less exist.

My one question for this group, the one question that could break open and expose these people for who they really are, is: “What exactly is your point in attacking this public monument that is a good hour away from your home base and has been standing for 12 years without controversy?” I doubt that any of them would be so self-critical and brutally honest with themselves to answer: “Because our self-esteem is so low that we constantly have to find new enemies onto which we project our self-hatred and disgust. Because we have nothing else to do than to make other people’s lives a living hell. Because we just don’t like Mexicans and anyone else who doesn’t look or think like us.”

[KevMinh]

[cuong]

A perfect example of what makes America great, since criticisms such as these could never transpire in a country like Vietnam. We have the right to make a statement, we have the right to counter, and no one gets hurt. The ideal situation -- since I am an idealist -- allows both sides to learn from each other.

So why there are there death threats? I think this is un-American and no reputable group would (or should) support such actions.

However, we are still a country governed by laws created by representatives of citizens. They are not perfect but until we find a better system than what we have now, let's stick with it. So why do certain Americans support illegals? I am all for a better opportunity but it is unfair for anyone to stand in line, i.e., follow the rules, if others are rudely cutting in front. This is analogous to someone not stopping at red lights; he or she acts at the expense of everyone else.
_________________
Intelligence unplugged
www.cuong.com

[KevMinh]

[Rob Vox]

KevMinh,

And so your anti-Bush bias rears its ugly head again. You liberals can always relate anything you hate about the world to Bush. That shows how narrow and feeble your perspectives are.

Look, even Sean Hannity and other conservatives believe in giving people who want to come to America opportunities because that is what America is all about. But in the wake of 911, Illegal immigration poses a threat to our national security because it makes it easier for the enemies of America to come into this country. The borders have to be secure, and yes it involves preventing illegal immigration.

And yes I have criticized the Bush Admin in the past about not doing enough to secure the borders and in the event of a terrorist attack due to border issues, the Bush admin will be finished.

But don't try to turn this into an "I hate illegals issue" this is a national security issue. But if you can't understand that, then it is clear that your anti-Bush agenda, your hatred of the administration has blinded you into thinking with the narrow perspective of the pathetic Micheal Moores and the ACLU's of the world.

But as long as libs like you keep up that great work of being hateful and narrow, you will lose more elections because people are beginning to see through the no-substance and hateful rhetoric of the liberals. how else can ou explain that party who supposed to have so much influence over the mainstream media and todays youth lost to Bush. Yes Bush, the most hated public figure in America today (if one's source of media coverage was CNN, MSNBC, BBC, NPR, New York Times, LA Times, MTV, Al Frankin, Daily Show).
And you libs can't even pull off a victory with all that media power at your side.

No wonder why every lib I run into is so hateful and bitter. But you guys do have the support of Al Qeada I bet, yes Al Qeada supports you guys, why not right, I mean you both hate America and Bush at the same time, and every time you guys try to make American and Bush look bad, the Al Qaeda members are high fiving each other saying "Stupid Americans, but you gotta hand to the liberals, with their undying anti-American anti-Bush stance, it makes out job of convincing the world to hate America alot easier, and now we can kill Americans with less resistance"

Much like how the North Vietnamese admitted that they could never beat the US militarily, but they can beat the US in the battle field of public opinion and in the protest streets of Washington. and they did thanks to you pathetic liberals.

And now you are doing the same thing today, hating america, making our soldiers look bad like that way you spat on them when they returned from the Vietnam War calling them baby killers.

And now you once again you liberal are the ponds of the terrorists (much like how you were ponds of the Communist North Vietnamese) aiding in their efforts to beat America both on the battle field and in the court of public opinion.

[KevMinh]

You're a wreck, man. Turn in your computer to the nearest thrift store and take up reading or some other exercise in quiet reflection. None of what you wrote in your latest post makes a lick of sense (or even seriously addresses the topic at hand), although it was all completely predictable and repetative.

[Rob Vox]

Kev,

If you can't understand my point then I can't help you there. Its pretty obvious that you are the only one on this thread who is still holding on to your exxtreme but dying leftist views.