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JimTungLe
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 28
Location: California
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 Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Ly wrote: |
- I am well aware of the VNese news, the VNese overseas community news, other "so-called" VNese politicians, and the activities that Mr. Buu Chanh is doing. So, please do not assume and start to preach.
- I don't need someone to shovel in my face pictures and information that I do not choose to read. Yes, you can put a headline, a link, a short paragraph, and allow the reader to decide whether he/she want to read more on the subject. Respect others' believe and do not spam with just propaganda slogans and pictures!
- If you follow your heart, participate in these demonstrations, and believe in just causes; then share your point of views by put up your own arguments and reasons. Don't hog the whole bandwidth of pictures after pictures, slogans after slogans of meaningless arguments. |
First you Ly, used the statement
"Call me a pessimistic, but
I just couldn't resist laughing
out loud and saying: "Fat chance" "
I dont think the men that are pictured above,
is a laughing matter, there are Human Rights
abuses being done in Vietnam and Prince Buu Chanh
is is spreading the news to bring Human Rights to
Vietnam and well as Democracy.
Second Ly, you stated, ""so-called" VNese politicians,"
Prince Buu Chanh, is a Nguyen Prince by birth, he was born under the Imperial Family of Prince Kien Hoa (the Duke of Kien Hoa), who was the 71st son of the Emperor Minh Mang.
He is currently the Regent of the Nguyen Dynasty, after the death of Emperor Bao Dai, the Imperial Nguyen Vietnamese Overseas Council appointed him Regent of the Nguyen Dynasty.
Thirdly, you stated "propaganda slogans"
Presenting photographs of Vietnamese that want freedom for their country and also showing religious leaders in jail is propaganda?
Vietnamse Americans are tired of the oppression and
the suffering of their brother and sisters in Vietnam. Showing their struggle and their devotion
to bring freedom to Vietnam is a form of Free Speech.
Lastly you stated "Don't hog the whole bandwidth of pictures after pictures, slogans after slogans of meaningless arguments."
Please tell me why the above indiviuals are in jail in Vietnam, is that meaningless?
_________________
"When we are not devoted to serve the People, we cannot have the right to ask for the favors from the nation." -- Prince Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh |
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sarah_pnk
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 112
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ly was not laughing at the abuse of Human Rights in dictatorship Viet Nam. He was laughing that Communism/dicatorship Viet Nam could live simultaneously with "Constitutional Monarchist" Viet Nam. I nearly guffawed my throat dry at the phrase as well.
He is spreading the news in California--- in the USA. People who are in California have already fled the cage that is Viet Nam. How does it help the Viet Namese? The only way would be to compromise with the Viet Namese government.
Propaganda is a loosely defined term. Anything and everything is propaganda.
I am glad the the Viet Namese-Americans are sympathetic or empathetic to the suffering of their "brothers and sisters in Viet Nam," but Buu Chanh's politics has had no results.
It is meaningless because it does not get them out of jail.
_________________
"When the Special Theory of Relativity began to germinate in me, I was visited by all sorts of nervous conflicts... I used to go away for weeks in a state of confusion." Albert Einstein |
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JimTungLe
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 28
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| sarah_pnk wrote: |
I am glad the the Viet Namese-Americans are sympathetic or empathetic to the suffering of their "brothers and sisters in Viet Nam," but Buu Chanh's politics has had no results.
It is meaningless because it does not get them out of jail. |
The name is Prince Buu Chanh, ok.
Prince Buu Chanh is the Regent of the Imperial Nguyen Dynasty.
Prince Buu Chanh is the President of the Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League.
Politically Pressure does work to bring an outcome, without using violence.
Prince Buu Chanh is heavily influenced by Mohandas Gandhi's philosophy of nonviolence.
Did Mohanhda Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., and Nelson Mandela succeed?
_________________
"When we are not devoted to serve the People, we cannot have the right to ask for the favors from the nation." -- Prince Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh |
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sarah_pnk
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 112
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:18 am Post subject: |
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My point was that they protested where the problem existed. All Buu Chanh is doing is clogging up USA streets.
I also like how you used the Republic's flag as the bars of a prison. Good job, it looks like Communist propaganda.
The name is Mohanda, okay?
Mohanda was taken prisoner several times. King, although knew what he was risking, got shot. I think Buu Chanh is too afraid to protest in Viet Nam because he is afraid of consequences.
_________________
"When the Special Theory of Relativity began to germinate in me, I was visited by all sorts of nervous conflicts... I used to go away for weeks in a state of confusion." Albert Einstein |
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JimTungLe
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 28
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| sarah_pnk wrote: | My point was that they protested where the problem existed. All Buu Chanh is doing is clogging up USA streets.
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Prince Buu Chanh has been exiled from Vietnam, since 1979, and he is politically pressuring the government of Vietnam.
He is not allowed to return, to Vietnam.
Is it ok, to protest for Human Rights and Democracy for Vietnam, here in the United States, are you aware of the consequences that might occur if he was to secretly enter the country.
Have you heard of Aung San Suu Kyi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San_Suu_Kyi
| sarah_pnk wrote: | I also like how you used the Republic's flag as the bars of a prison. Good job, it looks like Communist propaganda.
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The photograph of the National Flag of Vietnam, represents the three lines that signify North, Central and South Vietnam, and the people are behind the bars are oppressed.
The Freedom Dove, is trying to fly into the flag, while the man is trying to make way for it to fly into it.
| sarah_pnk wrote: |
The name is Mohanda, okay?
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Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi / Mahatma Gandhi from a Encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohandas_Gandhi
| sarah_pnk wrote: |
Mohanda was taken prisoner several times. King, although knew what he was risking, got shot. I think Buu Chanh is too afraid to protest in Viet Nam because he is afraid of consequences. |
After the Fall of Saigon, Prince Buu Chanh remained in Vietnam, and tried to rally the people to establish democractic reforms and pressure the Hanoi government.
He was threaten by the Communist Regime to be sent to a re-education camp, or be exiled.
Are you aware of the Vietnamese Holocaust
committed by the Communist Regime of Vietnam.
Encyclopedia definition
Vietnamese Holocaust:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_Holocaust
REGISTRY OF DEATHS IN RE-EDUCATION CAMPS : http://www.vietmemorial.org/myweb/thelist.html
Vietnamese language: http://thaoha.free.fr/hoangtocvietnam.htm
English language: http://users.panola.com/vietnam/
_________________
"When we are not devoted to serve the People, we cannot have the right to ask for the favors from the nation." -- Prince Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh |
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sarah_pnk
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 112
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:38 am Post subject: |
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I really like how condescending our two preachers are.
_________________
"When the Special Theory of Relativity began to germinate in me, I was visited by all sorts of nervous conflicts... I used to go away for weeks in a state of confusion." Albert Einstein |
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Rob Vox
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:51 am Post subject: |
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Ly,
You may have a problem with the photographs and the pictures of our south vietnamese flags and political prisoners of the pathetic communist regime in Vietnamese, but I don't.
I think Jim doing a great thing bringing us photos, articles and information in the attempts for bringing democracy to Vietnam.
Jim you have my full support, as any thing that displays the honor of the true Vietnam that was lost to communism 30 years ago.
Lets face it! Many Vietnamse youth today are communist sympathizers mainly because of rebellion against the beleifs of their parents, yes the same parents who risked their life to bring them to America.
Look at the mess that happened with VAX TV due to a misunderstanding that VAX was pro-communist, mainly because VAX initially decided to take a neutral stance between freedom and communism as opposed to choosing to be on freedom's side and opposed to the communist side. But VAX later did wise-up and took a clear stance against communism.
To many of the youth today, taking an anti-communist stance is equivalent to the repression of free speech for some stupid reason. As if they want to let the communist propagandists speak while complaining about the anti-communist propagandists for preaching freedom and democracy.
It has some how become unpopular to be anti-commuinist to many vietnamese youth. They even complain about anti-communist propaganda nowadays spouting extreme liberal crap and ideology that they really know nothing about aside from the fact that much of that garbage was stuffed down thier throats by anti-american, anit-Vietnam War hiippie left-overs from their poli-sci courses.
The communist Vietnamese governement has been trying to infiltrate the Vientamese American youth for years secretly promoting their propaganda and recruiting communist sympathizers. There is a vast majority of articles condeming the use of the south vietnamese flag by the community and its attempts to prevent communist activities and functions in their communities.
I choose to be on the side of freedom and democracy for here, abroad and in Vietnam.
To those of you who dared to call Jim's postings propaganda, try spending a few months in a communist re-education camp before you make such a statement, then you will know the true meaning of propaganda.
Jim, thanks for all the information that you are providing for us, keep them coming my friend, for you have my support. |
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Rob Vox
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:06 am Post subject: |
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I took another look at Jim's postings, he stated that communism and democracy can survive togather under the same goverment, ... hmmmm I am not sure if I agree with this.
The corruption of communism runs deeply, to intertwine the communist government with a democratic reform will dig a deeper hole for the communist pigs to hide their corruption.
Hmmmmm, athough your intentions are good, I am not yet convinced of your approach to intertwine the two systems.
Complete elimination of the communist regime is the best way to instill freedom and democracy, but if only it were that easy. I wish we had all the answers but we will keep searching for them. |
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michael
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:41 am Post subject: |
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I'm a bit busy so I can't respond to the entire post - but if you can't see that Jim's posts are propaganda, you really need to reread his posts and his links.
_________________
Vietnamese American Magazine |
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Ly
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 42
Location: Virginia, US
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob Vox wrote: | Ly,
You may have a problem with the photographs and the pictures of our south vietnamese flags and political prisoners of the pathetic communist regime in Vietnamese, but I don't. |
Neither am I, Rob.
But I still think it's best to provide the just view point, and then refer to an URL link if the reader chooses to follow the link to find out more on the subject.
| Quote: |
I choose to be on the side of freedom and democracy for here, abroad and in Vietnam. |
Good for you, Rob. 
| Quote: |
To those of you who dared to call Jim's postings propaganda, try spending a few months in a communist re-education camp before you make such a statement, then you will know the true meaning of propaganda. |
"Amen!"
Is that what the choir usually say, following a preacher's pronounce?
The question is: does that make the preacher feel good? Does that make the choir happier? Or better yet, does that make VN any less/more freedom? |
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Ly
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 42
Location: Virginia, US
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| JimTungLe wrote: |
The name is Prince Buu Chanh, ok.
Prince Buu Chanh is the Regent of the Imperial Nguyen Dynasty.
Prince Buu Chanh is the President of the Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League. |
OK. Here is my problem.
The Imperial Nguyen Dynasty is no longer exist, neither in VN or abroad. Yes, you can call him Prince, King, or whatever you so choose since you are a member of that association/group/party/ or whatever; but please do not force someone else to call him "Prince"! I did not vote for him, and neither had he ever open to a public election. So, how could I ever call him King or Prince? Yes, I know that he's the son of former VN King Bảo Đại; but ... do you know that because of that weak and puppet dynasty, who allowed the French to dominate our country for 100 years?
The question is: do you really believe that VN would be better with the monarchy? Oh ... Please! Spare me the lecture. |
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sarah_pnk
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 112
Location: US
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Curtly, Communism is much too fallible, and I don't believe it can
truly exist, especially not on as large a scale as a whole country...
funny about China and the USSR.
_________________
"When the Special Theory of Relativity began to germinate in me, I was visited by all sorts of nervous conflicts... I used to go away for weeks in a state of confusion." Albert Einstein |
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JimTungLe
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 28
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| michael wrote: | | I'm a bit busy so I can't respond to the entire post - but if you can't see that Jim's posts are propaganda, you really need to reread his posts and his links. |
Propaganda ?
Are you serious?
You definitly need to do some more research, why Prince Buu Chanh has been taking the initial step to politicall pressure the government of Vietnam, to establish a democracy.
Communist Vietnamese Death Camps
PHOTOS TAKEN AND SMUGGLED OUT OF VIETNAM
NOTICE: PHOTOS ARE GRAPHIC
The Photos are RECENT
It has been reported by the International Christian Concern on December 27, 2004.
December 27, 2004
Link 1: http://www.persecution.org/newsite/country...hp?newscode=635
Prince Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh condemns the Socialist Government of Vietnam for Violations of Human Rights.
_________________
"When we are not devoted to serve the People, we cannot have the right to ask for the favors from the nation." -- Prince Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh |
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michael
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Definition of Propaganda:
The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
Just because Buu Chanh has been "taking the initial step" does not discount that fact that you are continuing to spread propaganda.
The more one sided links you keep posting, the more skeptical I grow. I fail to see what you are trying to accomplish. The communist regime in Vietnam needs to fall, but I'm not ready to advocate for someone who refuses to speak plainly.
You keep saying that:
- Prince Buu Chanh is the Regent of the Imperial Nguyen Dynasty.
How does that impact anything in Vietnam? How much weight does that carry?
- Prince Buu Chanh is the President of the Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League.
Great, why not just call it the I Want To Be President of Vietnam League?
- Did Mohanhda Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., and Nelson Mandela succeed.
I'm sorry but Prince Buu Chanh can hardly be compared to these great men. Please don't try. All three of them were persecuted greatly for voicing their opinions within the area of conflict. Prince Buu Chanh is OUTSIDE of Vietnam.
While his efforts are certainly laudable, your constant promotion detracts from his reputation. However, I am glad that you found this forum because you bring a different voice and opinion.
_________________
Vietnamese American Magazine |
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JimTungLe
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 28
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Ly wrote: | | The Imperial Nguyen Dynasty is no longer exist, neither in VN or abroad. |
Ly,
You need to do some more research.
1. The Nguyen Dynasty does exist still, in exile.
To read more about the Nguyen Dynasty in Exile here is the Official Link: http://www.orderofthedragon.homestead.com/index2.html
| Ly wrote: | | Yes, I know that he's the son of former VN King Bảo Đại; |
2. Prince Buu Chanh is not the son of Emperor Bao Dai.
Prince Buu Chanh is the Uncle of Emperor Bao Dai.
Prince Buu Chanh holds the same family rank as the Emperor Khai Dinh (the late father of Emperor Bao Dai). Emperor Khai Dinh (1916-1925) is only an Imperial title, his birth name was Prince Nguyen Phuoc Buu Dao. As Emperor Bao Dai's (1926-1945) birth name is Prince Nguyen Phuoc Vinh Thuy. Vinh being the 5th word of the Imperial Poem."
Emperor Bao Dai's son, is Crown Prince Bao Long that lives in exile in France, and has chosen not to politically speak out against the government of Vietnam and has chosen to live in retirement.
| Ly wrote: | | Yes, you can call him Prince, King, or whatever you so choose since you are a member of that association/group/party/ or whatever; but please do not force someone else to call him "Prince"! I did not vote for him, and neither had he ever open to a public election. So, how could I ever call him King or Prince? |
Emperor Bao Dai, passed away in 1997, and the Vietnamese Imperial Family Council under the leadership of Prince Buu Phuc.
In February 2002, Prince Buu Phuc appointed Prince Buu Chanh and the Regent of the Nguyen Dynasty in Exile.
Newspaper article: http://citypaper.net/articles/2004-08-19/cb3.shtml
Definition of a Regent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent
| Ly wrote: | | The question is: do you really believe that VN would be better with the monarchy? Oh ... Please! Spare me the lecture. |
Are you aware of the Kingdom of Cambodia?
In 1989, the Communist Vietnamese retreated back to Vietnam, after their installed their puppet Prime Minister Hun Sen after they defeated the Khmer Rouge.
In 1993, there was a U.N. mandated Elections, and the people of Cambodia voted to establish a Constitutional Monarchy.
Hun Sen won the election as the Prime Minister and since then he has been re-elected.
He is a Cambodian Communist Party Member and has been chosen by the people to serves as Prime Minister.
Are you aware what a Constititional Monarchy is ?
Though the king or queen may be regarded as the government's symbolic head, it is the Prime Minister, whose power derives directly or indirectly from elections, who actually governs the country.
Definition of a Constitutional Monarchy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy
Prince Buu Chanh is politically pressuring the government of Vietnam, to establish a Democracy in Vietnam that will provide Human Rights and Religious Rights for the people of Vietnam.
It is up to the people to chose if they want a Constitutional Monarchy.
As the Regent of the Nguyen Dynasty-------Prince Buu Chanh has the right to speak out on the behalf of his people when they are being oppressed and human rights and religious persecution is being taken place by the hands of the current one-party government system located in Hanoi.
_________________
"When we are not devoted to serve the People, we cannot have the right to ask for the favors from the nation." -- Prince Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh
Last edited by JimTungLe on Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:15 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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